LK ([info]lkoyfman) wrote,
@ 2006-08-29 00:46:00
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Katherine Harris interview
If you're not electing Christians, then in essence you are going to legislate sin

You might remember Ms. Harris from Florida 2000 elections. I wonder if Republicans still going to support her...

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[info]cryowizard
2006-08-29 05:21 am UTC (link)
They already said they wont. She's nuts.

(Reply to this)

in other news...
[info]a_lazy_legend
2006-08-29 02:03 pm UTC (link)
This reminded me of the overheardinny quote:

Tourist: I want to go home. New York is so unchristian. Look at this, they even have a place called "Satan Island"!
New Yorker: Oh yeah, we New Yorkers are the worst. We even sold our souls to the devil so we could all read.

--6 train

(Reply to this) (Thread)
Re: in other news...
[info]rkatsyv
2006-08-29 02:22 pm UTC (link)
Yep, the only intelligent people in this country live in NYC (OK, maybe SF too). And, of course, religiousness comes from the lack of education. After a man finds out that lightnings are not produced by prophet Elijah striking demons, he, naturally, can no longer believe in God.

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Re: in other news...
[info]a_lazy_legend
2006-08-29 02:58 pm UTC (link)
Obviously intelligence and religiousness aren't mutually exclusive, neither are religiousness and the ability to dole out sarcasm in great heaps.
Religiousness is great. It makes people feel better about themselves because they're not just insignificant gossamers of gossamers or "dust in the wind" as - they are part of a great (and intelligent) design. It unites them, gives them a purpose... like killing other people who subscribe to a different brand of religiousness.

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Re: in other news...
[info]rkatsyv
2006-08-29 03:15 pm UTC (link)
killing other people who subscribe to a different brand of religiousness

...or those who subscribe to a different economic model, or those who are of a different ethnic origin, or simply those that play saxophone at 3AM.

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[info]rkatsyv
2006-08-29 02:14 pm UTC (link)
Yep, that's where the gravest danger to our great Republic comes from: Christian fundamentalists. You can't even bring a bottle of water on board of a plane for the fear of them, for Pete's sake! Definitely, a concern #1 for all politically-aware Americans.

А если серьезно: давайте не будет валить все в одну кучу. Чай отдельно, мухи отдельно. Она обращалась со своими словами не к американскому народу в целом, а к читателям христианского религиозного журнала. Она сказала последователям христианской доктрины что если они не будут голосовать за других последователей христианской доктрины, то законодательный орган страны будет принимать законы противоречащие христианской доктрине Это чистая правда.

Что плохого в том что верующие христиане голосуют за политиков, которые тоже являются верующими христианами, для того чтобы эти политики голосовали руководствуясь этой религией? Мне всегда казалось, что именно в этом и есть смысл репрезентативного государственного устройства.

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[info]a_lazy_legend
2006-08-29 03:49 pm UTC (link)
i feel like picking a fight today, so i'm goofing around even though I have work to do.
anyhow, humor me :)
How do you feel about christian politicians making laws that make alcohol harder to come by ("no selling alcohol on Sunday" - though it's largly dead now - wasn't an atheist's idea)?
Also how do you explain that christian voters for the most part vote republican when the democratic doctrine aligns better with the christian one. You know - help poor people, give away your wealth and lead a humble but righteous existance, etc.

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[info]baffled_pumpkin
2006-08-29 04:36 pm UTC (link)
Also how do you explain that christian voters for the most part vote republican when the democratic doctrine aligns better with the christian one.

well, not exactly. in general, republican values are more conservative. when it comes to controversial issues like abortion, gay marriage, sexual abstinence before marriage, etc. -- this is where republicans get christian support. even though not all republicans are that socially conservative, if any major party gives any support to these conservative concepts, it would be republican party. and these are more important to most christians than anything else.

for instance, i can relate to that. I am a social liberal, but I am quite conservative when it comes to taxes, welfare programs, etc. My parents say that I am 100% republican in that respect :)
however, republican social conservatism, support for war, and concentration on business with total disregard for ecological environment repulse me so much, that i am willing to put up w/some democratic programs that i totally disagree with and that don't make any sense to me whatsoever.
it is just that if there is no party whose entire value portfolio would be in perfect alignment with our values, everybody concentrates on what's more important for them

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[info]rkatsyv
2006-08-29 04:59 pm UTC (link)
there is no party whose entire value portfolio would be in perfect alignment with our values, everybody concentrates on what's more important for them

+1

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]rkatsyv
2006-08-29 04:54 pm UTC (link)
How do you feel about christian politicians making laws that make alcohol harder to come by ("no selling alcohol on Sunday" - though it's largly dead now - wasn't an atheist's idea)?

I'm against that law, but I'm for people being able to elect politicians that represent their desire for such laws. What I'm strongly against is the rule of the "enlightened" elite, that decides for people what laws are good for them and what laws aren't. The only way to avoid that is to have a system of government known as "representation". And laws such as "no booze on Sundays" are the price that we have to pay for that.

christian voters for the most part vote republican

Not as overwhelmingly as you think. There are a lot of Christian Dems. Moreover, there has recently took shape a string "green" movement among Christians that brings them closer to Democratic party.

democratic doctrine aligns better with the christian one

There are many more differences then similarities - see below.

help poor people

Yes, but there two different ways of helping poor people

Christian(Jewish/Muslim/Buddist): a beleiver voluntarily donates some of his money to organize free food/shelter/free education in his parish.

Democrate: government takes away part of your property to support people who do not wish to work. In return, these people vote for the government.

Note the difference.

give away your wealth

Don't confuse Christian Bible with the actual doctrine. Christians today (especially those of Protestant denominations) absolutely do not beleive that they need to give away their wealth to achive salvation.

and lead a humble but righteous existance

And how would that be a part of Democratic doctrine??

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]a_lazy_legend
2006-08-29 09:13 pm UTC (link)
Here we come to the root of the disagreement. I'm not willing to compromise on social freedoms to get the economic ones. Besides, republicans have been in power for some time now and my tax burden hasn't become any lighter.

Christian(Jewish/Muslim/Buddist): a beleiver voluntarily donates some of his money to organize free food/shelter/free education in his parish.
Yeah, while he's just another believer he's donating money "voluntarily", but once that believer is elected to office he's going to vote on his values transforming his beliefs into your obligations. Isn't that what you're against? You don't like the "enlightened" elite telling you how to spend your money. I don't like the "holier than thou" elite telling me how to live. Potato, potato.. err... that doesn't work as well in print :)

Don't confuse Christian Bible with the actual doctrine. Christians today (especially those of Protestant denominations) absolutely do not beleive that they need to give away their wealth to achive salvation.

But Protestants are Protestants because their doctrine is - the Bible is the final word on everything, it's the ultimate truth, the word of god, etc. I agree with you that Protestants have long forgotten the whole eye of needle and camel thing, but that's not because their doctrine is different from what's in the Bible, it's just plain hipocrisy.

To summarize:
alcohol - good, people telling me what to do - bad, GO Patriots!

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[info]baffled_pumpkin
2006-08-30 04:46 am UTC (link)
Besides, republicans have been in power for some time now and my tax burden hasn't become any lighter.

i think so, too :)
democrats want our tax money for various welfare programs (which i personally do not support, btw), but republicans are wasting tons of it on the useless, senseless, and unnecessary war, preaching celibacy in schools (they call it "war against aids and teenage pregnancy") and god knows what else.
which one is worse?

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